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    May 28

    Science, Skepticism, and Flat Earth

    Science, Skepticism, and Flat Earth

    The amount of scientific investigation had lead to a situation where far more information about the universe is known than any one person could ever learn. Therefore, even though science is all about openness and reproducibility, everyone can't check everything. Therefore, even though some people know that quantum theory works or know how an engine works, most other people only believe quantum theory is what physics professors say, or believe that engines work the way engineers say they do. For a few aspects of science, some random group of people for whatever reason decides not to believe blindly. Since science is open and reproducible, these people could learn and know that whatever they doubted is true, but scientists are usually not the best at making such information easily available and comprehensible.
    When people are skeptical of a claim, there are a few methods of dealing with it. As discussed here, one can investigate scientifically, i.e. proposing hypotheses and then developing experiments to test them. A scientist will then admit when an hypothesis is falsified by those experiments, and work on a new one. A "kook" will generally not do experiments, but instead insist that others do them to prove things. Kooks will then reject as biased or inaccurate any experiment that does not produce the results they wanted. An interesting case study of this phenomenon is the Flat Earth Society, who have decided that the Earth is actually flat, and that the US, Russian and Chinese governments and space agencies are conspiring to hide that information. Given the case they present, most people probably believe the Earth is round, but do not know it. Here I will demonstrate how a scientist would investigate this question.

    The conventional model:

    The earth is an oblate spheroid with a polar radius or 6356.8 km and an equatorial radius of 6378km. Due to gravitational interaction, it orbits the sun, which has a radius of 6.96E8m, with a semi-major axis of 149597887.5km once every 365.256 days (the .256 creates the need for leap days).
    For more information, see The Sun and The Earth Wikipedia pages.

    The flat earth model:

    Information from The Flat Earth Society Homepage.
    The earth is a 24900 mile disk, with the North pole at its center. The sun and moon are 32mile diameter spotlights at a height of 3000miles that circle the north pole over the equator. Since they are spotlights, only part of the earth is illuminated at any given time. Gravity is not real, things fall because the earth, moon, and sun are accelerating upward at 9.8m/s.

    The evidence:

    geometry and astronomy:

    Sunrise and sunset and time zones are superficially addressed by the flat earth model, but in a very hand wavy way. The sun appears to rise in the east and set in the west. North of the Tropic of Cancer, the sun is always to the south of vertical, and south of the Tropic of Capricorn, it is always to the north. The flat earth model described would predict that the sun would not move more than a few degrees from vertical, and rather than setting, would just appear to fade out.
    The ancient Greek, Eratosthenes calculated the radius of the Earth in 240 BCE. His method begins with the knowledge that the sun is far enough away to be treated as a parallel ray source, which can easily be demonstrated. Then the difference in angle between the sun and the ground in two different locations is used to determine the difference in ground orientation between the two locations.
    travel time between cities-> distance between cities
    One can see satellites, and the international space station, for more information, see heavens-above.com.
    More evidence the ancient Greeks noticed: when a ship was approaching shore, the masts and sails became visible first, then the rest of the ship, while on a flat earth, one would expect to see the entire ship at all times until it became a featureless dot. At the flat earth forum here people seemed unable to comprehend that point.

    inertia:

     Coriolis effect & hurricanes
    The following devices demonstrate the difference between an inertial frame and the rotating earth:
    Foucault's Pendulum
    gyroscope
    or with modifications a gyrocompass

    gravity:

    Gravity has been observed to vary from the poles to the equator and with altitude.
    The Cavendish experiment which is used to determine the gravitational constant. It involves a torsional pendulum (a bar with two lead balls on the ends supported by a wire), which twists according to the force applied. Placing more lead spheres near the ones suspended on the wire causes a measurable deflection, which allows the gravitational attraction between the spheres in the horizontal plane to be measured. Pasco sells one for physics lab classes. This effect was mentioned in a flat earth forum and its scientific merit was completely ignored.

    Conclusion

    I am posting the following message on a flat earth society forum:
    There are many observations one can make that fit a round earth model but not a flat earth one. Many of them have already been brought up in these forums, and never satisfactorily answered. To save space and repetition here, I will simply provide a link ([url]http://qbsmd.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!5BA0601679A003C2!111.entry[/url]) containing all of those observations. The purpose of this post is to ask what, if any observations do you claim support a flat earth model, that do not support a round earth model?





    Comments (1)

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    Picture of Anonymous
    The Earth Is Flat wrote:
    Ok Kook, so you posted some questions on FES and want us to do your homework for you?

    Let me quote you:
    Quote
    A "kook" will generally not do experiments, but instead insist that others do them to prove things. Kooks will then reject as biased or inaccurate any experiment that does not produce the results they wanted.

    Now let me also not that you posted the same questions all over our forums, and cherry picked the ones which supported your points.

    When in fact you seem to be the "kook" refusing to do experiments to verify your points.

    Case 1: Your primary example was the sinking ship effect.  We pointed out that this proves the Earth is flat.  If you use a quality telescope, the hull of the ship will be restored.  Please stop being a "kook" and do the experiment yourself.  Furthermore, we explained the mechanics of the perspective effect causing the illusion.

    Case 2: You post the lunar eclipse as an example of a round Earth.  This example also proves a flat Earth, for the moon and sun have been observed in the sky at the same time (the selenehelion, widely ignored by round earth believers) which is impossible in round earth theory.  You ignored this point because it did not conform to your model.

    Case 3:You point to the Cavendish experiment as proof the Earth is not flat.  Which is patently silly for so many reasons it is difficult to list here.  Among them, the accelerating earth and infinite plane models will still work with gravity.  Next, the Cavendish experiments are deeply flawed in that the most ambitious attempts have always come up with contradictory results when measuring G (which is degrees of magnitude less precisely defined than other constants to begin with).  Further, gravitons have not, and likely will not be proven to exist, so gravity is at best a "god did it" as compared with our more intuitively obvious acceleration theory.

    Case 4:  You use Eratosthenes experiment to prove a round earth, when in fact this experiment  requires the assumption of a round earth.  When you correctly assume the Earth is flat, the same experiment demonstrates the true distance to the sun.

    Case 5: Foucault's pendulum.  This does not prove a round earth.  This proves a pendulum rotates, exactly matching the rotation of the celestial spheres.  Round earth theory proposes the rotation of the stars are unrelated to the rotation of the pendulum.  Flat Earth theory proposes research toward determining the yet unknown connection with the celestial spheres and rotation on Earth.  Then when Nobel prize winner Maurice Allais demonstrates that the pendulum changes in rotation 13.5 degrees during an eclipse (suggesting the celestial spheres are related to the pendulum), the "kook" chooses to ignore those results.



    So please, now that all of your points have proved the Earth is flat, why are you being such a "Kook" and ignoring the evidence? 

    As we suggested on the forum, please read at least the basic literature directly measuring the shape of the earth before commenting on such things (start with http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/index.htm)

    "In conclustion" to quote you again - "points" for trying to impress your friends though.  I hope they search our forums and discover how insecure your beliefs truly are.
    May 28

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